31 Flavors of Deconstruction

Okay, 36 Flavors

1. The deal-breaker: In retrospect, what caused the irreversible unraveling of your faith?

It was a culmination of many things. I don't know if it is actually irreversible as there might be something happen to me that could constitute such an unexplainable violation of natural law that I could be swayed to believe again. I doubt that-- with the level of skepticism I possess these days, but to rule it out would paint me as closed minded.

2. What made you finally recognize that the gods who have been presented to us in holy books are only constructs, entirely created by the imaginations of men?

The holy books conflict and contradict too much for my comfort level.  They portray an imperfect diety who conflicts and repents.  They have been verified to have been written by bronzed aged men. These men did not know about science like we do today. Hence, there was huge superstition attributing every odd occurance to a god.  Humans used to believe god was in the thunder, then they found out it was just air and god was no longer in the thunder... and so forth.

3. Did you read or witness something that woke you up to this?

This is the website that got me started:

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/jesus.html

I owe much to Mr. Tobin. I wish I could thank him personally.

4. Did someone say something that suddenly struck you as patently ridiculous?

Cant recall. It all blends into one collage after awhile. I was a staunch theist in the Mormon religion for about the first 35 years of my life.  I don't think I can count the first 16 years of my life though.  So really I had a solid "conviction" if you will,  of Mormonism from age 16 until 35.  Though off and on from age 28 to 35 I severely doubted in fits and starts.  I shored up my testimony during the doubting times with more service, more prayer, more scripture reading.  Eventually I gave in to the seeds of reason and logic.  For the record, I believe that a person largely parrots what has been taught to him by his parents up until around 14-16 years old.  At this age, many people seek independence.  My awakening did not occur until much later.  But to answer the question, Yes, there are many strange and concocted assertions made in my former religion all the time. I could write a book.   However, I don't think that they are much more ridiculous than most One and Only True Religions of the world.

5. Did some world event or personal loss inspire it?

I watched Hotel Rwanda and did some research on the Killing Fields of Cambodia, I delved deep into the Jewish holocaust and then got my facts straight about Stalin.  I watched in horror the starvation and slaughter of hundreds of thousands in Somalia during 1993.  Finally I woke up to the fact that the world is atrociously evil and not by design.  Human nature caves to base levels even when widespread religion is present.  I often wondered how powerful god really was and if he truly was powerfully omnipotent, why was the mind numbing degree of suffering present?  Couldn't he tone it down a little?  Do 9 year old girls on the other side of the world really need to be brutally gang raped, tortured in unspeakable ways, and finally beheaded?  Everything in me shouts against it.  I cannot any longer chalk atrocity up to some cosmic reason that only a wise but unproven creator understands.  Many times these crimes are committed in the name of religion.  Basically the slaughter of millions laid significant weight for me in my case against a god.  Also, God is supposed to be benevolent... yet... he appears to condone murder, and slavery in his "holy" book.  We witness benevolence gone haywire.

And then the Theist argument of free will is extremely hollow to me. It sounds like a desperate excuse made up after the theist gets painted into a corner by the actions of his misbehaving god.

6. What was the clincher?

A culmination of much research. I struggled with the question "Why is there something rather than nothing" and what is the origin of the universe?

I discovered Guth and Andre Linde's Inflationary Universe model

http://www.stanford.edu/~alinde/1032226.pdf

which posits a plausible theory for the origins of the universe. It excited me to see that while one could still inject their god into this model, they did not necessarily have to. All the laws of physics came together with scalar fields, quantum theory and thermonuclear dynamics.

It was enough so that I was able to loosen my grip on the dependency for god once and for all. He was on my shit list anyhow for exhibiting such bad behavior throught recorded history... but I could not shake the cause of this something we call the universe.  I still struggle with it as I contemplate the magnitude of order set inside such pinging chaos.  Regardless, I found a plausible godless case within the confines of Inflationary Universe.

7. Chronic doubt:

If it wasn't an all-at-once "ah-HA!" thing for you, how many times would you estimate that an alarm sounded before you dared address your doubts for anything more than just a few minutes at a time?

Cognitive dissonance takes a massive repetetive dose of skeptical critical thinking to get past. Getting past cognitive dissonance is different for everyone depending on the emotional investment they had in religion. It was years for me.  I was highly invested in religion.

8.  Do you remember letting the doubts fade away soon after they came over you, perhaps accompanied by a thought something to the effect of: "Doubts are only natural, only human. That's just Satan tempting me. I'll go to Hell if I keep thinking about this . . ."

Yep. All the time.  In fact, in 1998 I renounced my religion for the first time and my first wife left me over it.  I recanted my bold renunciation when I found myself in the depths of despair divorce can bring.  I felt like I made a horrible mistake.  I thought people were free to believe what they will.  I did not count on my renunciation destroying a marriage.  I returned to my roots after my co-dependent relationship with god kicked in from the sense of loss and failure the divorce brought me.  Always taught to repent and seek forgiveness (i.e. approval) from an all powerful diety, I begged for emotional sustainment and approval that I would still find favor in this god's eyes.  I had an emotional release after weeks of agonizing and mental self-torture about the failed marriage.  I now see that this is inevitable.  Even atheists experience this emotional release when something troubles them deeply and they seek to move on with their lives.  A loved one dies and they are grief stricken.  They too feel the release when they finally come to terms with it.  In my case, coming to terms with my divorce meant many things.  That I was conditioned to turn to a god is not surprising.  I think about that experience from time to time and hesitate to comment further on it.  I have had a few experiences like it in my life.  But none of them conclusively depict the needed presence of a god.  I understand that family members who know me will see this as a rationalizing.  My experiences are mine to interpret.

9. Once you embarked upon a full internal investigation, did you go it alone, or did you look to an atheist 'guide' for moral support?

I read and still read everything I can from many different view points. Sagan, Schermer, Dawkins, Boyer, Hoffer, Arronson, Michael Martin, Sam Harris... to name a few.  I also spend large amounts of time discussing theology with staunch theists who are far beyond my ability in logic and philosophy.  I enjoy talking to non theists also, but find the debate with believers to be more engaging from time to time.  They tend to bring thought provoking arguments to the table that question the unbeliever's stance in curious ways.  I have yet to find an argument that is cogent enough to sway me back to 100% belief in a god.

10. Did you discuss it with a theist friend you thought might be sympathetic to your doubts?

No

11. Did private online research play a part in your enlightenment?

Most of my research was online. Internet Infidels was a key role in bouncing ideas off of people of all beliefs:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=4

12. Did your holy book or your theistic friends help to quell your doubts, or did they only further feed them?

The inaccuracies were splinters in my mind. Talking donkeys, water into wine, incest is okay, parting the red sea... global floods.  And in my Mormon case, Joseph Smith being commanded by an angel to have sex with other wives.  His lying in public print about it.  His translated non verifiable golden plates, failed illegal banking schemes that broke many early saints financials.  Joseph Smith was completely untrustworthy.  It bugged the hell out of me.

13. What emotions did you experience when you first dared to peer beyond the safe confines of your faith?

Relief. Excitement. Enthusiasm. Sponge like insatiable curiosity. I was relieved to see that I did not have to wear my doofus theist hat anymore, you know... there was actually another non magical way to view the world.  I hated wearing the doofus theist hat.  That hat that says "Yep, god killed all humans but 6 when he drowned the world". Or "Yep, God, Jesus and Moroni appeared to Joseph floating in the air... breaking the laws of physics."  I always felt so stupid believing things like that.

14. Was there terror and dread?

No, not really

15. Did you imagine God was watching you through every moment of your doubt, frowning in deep disappointment, poised to send in the Thought Police to punish you if you proceeded any further?

You know, once this god entity gets dismissed, and things start to fall in place and make much more sense without him, all that doom and gloom loses its bite.

16. Did you feel ashamed for asking questions, even in your own mind?

No I felt joy to finally be able to poke holes in the ridiculous magic world view that was foisted on me.  I suspected it was bogus for so long.  Finally it was okay to question it.  If it was true, it would stand up to rigorous scrutiny.

17. Did you then beg for forgiveness for your doubts, for insulting the martyred Jesus and your saintly parents, who taught you that he had unselfishly died just for you?

A little bit of that when I struggled in my cog diss. I would have doubtful days or weeks when I doubted my doubts and would try to give god one more try. I would beg him to make sense of it all. I prayed fervently for years through my struggles and finally got the message that he was not going to make it make sense.  I concluded that he was not up to the task because he did not exist. That is such a viable option.

18. With all those fail-safes programmed into your mind, designed to shame you and keep you from wandering beyond the confines/protections of God's corral, what gave you the courage to keep on going?

The sniff of reality. The scent was so alluring and attractive. I could not turn it off.

19. How did you "think" your way through all the shame/fear traps that waited just beyond the fence line?

Read read read read.

20. Can you identify the source of the courage that spurred you on?

Logic.

21. Do you still struggle sometimes with whether it's right or wrong to be "out here", outside what you were taught was God's love and protection?

Nope. Definately not. No anvil has dropped on my head. I read a great book by Taleb called "Foole by randomness". And then I found a great website about how if go was so miraculous and benevolent in curing people from cancer and headaches and whatever... why does he never heal amputees? Does he hate amputees? Does he love cancer patients more? Or does he need to remain hidden and can only heal people who also randomly go into remission on their own?

http://whydoesgodhateamputees.com/

22. It was some first-rate programming that was done to us, so, knowing that, do you ever get powerfully 'pinged' by remnants of that old program?

At the beginning I did. But now that I am the possessor of a more rational non magic world view, I don't have those pangs.

23. Do these pings cause you to wince and doubt your shedding of blind faith?

no

24. Do you ever fear that these pings are sincere communications from God, urging you to get back on your knees, regardless of whatever conflicting message your logical mind is feeding you?

No. This is easy to debunk. Which god do I follow? What faith? By signing up to one god, I automatically also sign up for the doom of the other gods. And it does not matter which god I pick. I will ALWAYS be doomed by someone else's god. See:

http://www.mrr1968.com/greatbeyond.html

for an exposition/essay I wrote on that in more detail.

25. Have you reluctantly considered redoubling your efforts to "find" faith again, in spite of all you've learned about things like circular reasoning, empirical proof, and simple logic? Based on the current state of the 'evidence', whatever you consider that to be (perhaps the Bible, or Nature itself), do you believe it's even possible to "unring that bell" or "put the toothpaste back in the tube" regarding blind faith? If you do, please explain how.

I did try. Again, it took me 7 years to deconstruct my faith completely. I do not believe it is plausible to put the toothpaste back into the tube. I hope I never do. I don't rule it out. Not because I secretly hope god is really there, but because I do have an agnostic streaky side to me too that admits nobody really knows if there is one god, 200 gods or just a three lined algorithm that started the whole universe 14 billion years ago. And since we do not know this, just go with the facts and enjoy life with the best information available. I refuse to bridge the gaps with an unproven god of the gaps.

26. In spite of our logic, unreasonable fear can still get the better of us. What do you do to realign with reality in those moments of reoccurring fear?

If you are talking about the existential fears as to what happens when we die... all I can say is that nobody knows what happens when we die. It is unproven. It is replete with myth and lore and NDE "opinions". Knowing that no one knows about the hereafter, I can say that this augments my life in tangible ways. I am caused to enjoy every single moment now. All I have garenteed is today. This hour, this minute, this second I am typing. I don't fear death.

27. What comforts you when, for example, you feel dread at the harsh fact that no perfect "eternity" likely awaits us (or our loved ones) after death?

I am comforted that nobody knows. Everyone's guess is as good as the other. If we don't know, then we don't know. Focus on what we do know. That's today.  What are you going to do about today to maximize the world around you?

28. When you worry that you may indeed end up in the deep-fryer of Hell, how do you re-boot that thinking?

Easy. That is positing a god again. If I live a good life loving my wife and kids and effecting good and he still chooses to send me to some torture venue... then what a prick. I refuse to believe in a capricious being like that. It goes against all rational thought.

The fact that the bible god I was conditioned to accept is so bloodthirsty and maniacal, and an entity capable of sending his children to an eternal torture chamber, just reeks of bronzed aged superstition that has not been revised for 3000 years. I think the fools on TV who spout the nonsense of Hell fire and brimstone are idiots. They may be the nicest people on the planet but they are blind idiots who cannot think past their noses.

That sounds harsh. Rehashing this picks at a sore spot. I really am not as intolerant as this response portrays me.

29. What are your tried-and-true methods for dealing with stubborn remnants of faith and "Hell Threat" programming?

see above

30. First of all, on a scale of one 1 to 10, where would you put yourself in terms of total freedom from blind faith? And if you consider yourself 1000% free, did your escape take hours, weeks, months, years, or decades to wholly accomplish?

2 maybe 3. only because I still combat once in a blue moon with the 35 years of god programming. I will probably never get rid of it either. You are dealing with a man who went to church every sunday for 35 years. I was conditioned in a severely black and white Us vs Them Mormon controlled mindset. I "knew" for decades that I was part of the True religion on earth and everyone else was in error.  I can say that I reject that premise, but the extension of that rejection still takes a willful thought process to fulfill from time to time.

31. Can you imagine ANYTHING short of empirical evidence that might cause you to reattach yourself to faith in a god? Example: If someone very dear to you appeared "healed" by his/her God faith, or if your child survived a terrifying brush with death after you prayed to Jesus (which many atheists surely do out of desperation) . . . would that make you attempt a re-conversion?

That's offensive. Off putting. I would not pray to a god even over my dying child. It would do no good. And what? If I pray and something randomly happens to save my child that would have happened regardless prayer or no prayer... what? Do I now owe this unproven god the rest of my life?

I s'pose if I did not pray and he died, I would then be faced with wondering if my child died because I did not pray...

Now that is just sick and wrong right there. God is going to strike my child dead or allow him to die because I did not pray? More proof that god is a candidate for a made up buffoon type character. What kind of sick and perverted maniac is that god? Can you not see in this scenario why god is so prevelant? He gets the benefit of the doubt. He is a Heads I win Tails you lose god. People give this concept way too much credence and allowance.

32. In short, lacking in hard evidence, can you imagine being re-seduced by an entirely mystical experience, or a perceived answering of your prayers?

no but I do not rule it out.  Part of that platform of keeping an open mind for anything.

33. If it were to happen tomorrow, do you think it would make you happy or angry to experience empirical evidence of God? If God appeared simultaneously to all beings across the planet, perhaps giving a one-time, 5-minute speech and demonstration of power, would you be delighted or disturbed?

I would have a great laugh. It would be humorous to me.

You mean... I was supposed to believe in a killing, torturing, conflicted, imperfect and temper tantrum throwing entity that does not bother to aid or prevent the murder of hundreds of African humans in one village in one day yet can find the time and trouble to assists another poor helpless soul find his car keys on another?  Or in Mormon context... I was supposed to believe that god's true plan for humans in heaven is that women are to be one wife of hundreds (thousands?) for eternity?  That men can become gods themselves?  That Joseph Smith really was the true prophet even though he had sex with many women and teen brides?  Even though he lied repeatedly about polygamy?  Even though he completely bungled the "translation" of egyptian papyri? etc? 

Dear God, I lost my car keys and I cannot be late to my dentist appointment! AH! Here they are! Thanks God!

Dear God, help us! We are about to be machine gunned to death by warring tribe members. They have us lined up now... God? God? Can you... uh... help out here maybe?

God: Sorry... I am busy finding the car keys at the moment

It is thoroughly disturbing. What a wacky god. Jokes on me I guess.

34. Would you feel thrilled or resentful at the fact that it took Him this long?

same response as above

35. And what if it was a 'Her'? What if it had the head of a sheep?

anything goes with this sort of speculation I guess.

36. Painful bonus question: Have particular relationships with close friends and family eroded, due entirely to your no longer participating in the blind faith they still adhere to?

Of course. I am seen as the "out there" "lost sheep". They all but shun me. I am dangerous. I have been blamed for my nephew's recent drug exploration and my sister's divorce. Oh well.